As someone who writes fic with polyamory and multiple pairings, or more than two main characters, and who often writes for multimedia fandoms where it's nice to be able to tag for multiple versions of canon (rather than "crossovers" with other canons), and as someone who REALLY likes being able to include links in author's notes, FFN is not totally ideal for my purposes as a reader or writer.
And that's not even touching the horrible, horrible upload interface, and the fact that I can't easily edit typos out of older stories, I have to upload a new copy. Or their condescending TOS. Or the fact that between URL/special character stripping and the TOS, epistolary fiction in the form of emails is unpostable (I mean, not that this is a common genre, but seriously).
FFN does some things better than AO3, but AO3 does other things far better (I'm not sure I consider tagging one of them, especially since my current fandom is full of Tumblr-style tags that are useless for finding anything, but I still find it easier to find things here than FFN).
First of all, the multiple character and pairing categories which you are referring to is part of the tagging interface. Tumblr-style tags are of no use, but they are just one component of the tagging system, and not the main one. Hell, even the fandom name thing on AO3 is part of the tagging interface.
As a fan of many minor character and pairings or rather characters and pairings that get short-shrifted in fandom, the fact that most fics under those character tags on Ao3 feature said characters in cameos and background is definitely not even in the vicinity of ideal for me. As a fan of multimedia massive fandoms, the fact that Ao3 offers no checks, that the Avengers (comics) tag is inundated with a bazillion movieverse fics, is also not a positive for me. So obviously contradictory viewpoints exist. I'm sure there are many MANY fans whose priorities are completely different from either your or mine.
Yes, Ao3 does many things well. But I don't think that means that a) one group of fandom priorities are in any way superior or more worthy of being catered to than the other, by an organization that dubs itself as the representative of ~all fandom~, or that b) doing those certain things well, is enough excuse to not do other things well, c) that 'at least it's not as bad as FF.net TOS' is enough to refuse to listen to user-base concerns about functionality, transparency and structural integrity.
That AO3 has its good points for writers is definitely true. But equally true is the fact that it takes its readerbase and those concerns very much for granted.
First of all, the multiple character and pairing categories which you are referring to is part of the tagging interface.
I...am fully aware of this? The fact that I don't think the AO3 tagging system is perfect or in all ways an improvement over FFN's filtering system does not mean I don't think the AO3 tagging system has no good qualities.
As a fan of many minor character and pairings or rather characters and pairings that get short-shrifted in fandom, the fact that most fics under those character tags on Ao3 feature said characters in cameos and background is definitely not even in the vicinity of ideal for me.
I agree. On the other hand, FFN often doesn't include minor characters as options, so fic featuring them is often no easier to find there. "Making AO3 more like FFN" is not going to solve the problems with AO3, and could easily introduce new problems.
Yes, Ao3 does many things well. But I don't think that means that a) one group of fandom priorities are in any way superior or more worthy of being catered to than the other, by an organization that dubs itself as the representative of ~all fandom~, or that b) doing those certain things well, is enough excuse to not do other things well, c) that 'at least it's not as bad as FF.net TOS' is enough to refuse to listen to user-base concerns about functionality, transparency and structural integrity.
That AO3 has its good points for writers is definitely true. But equally true is the fact that it takes its readerbase and those concerns very much for granted.
As for the rest...I have NO IDEA why you seem to think I'm saying AO3 is perfect and wonderful and doing everything great. I'm not even going to bother addressing your "points," since they are in response to absolutely nothing I've said, but are arguing against some kind of strawman argument you think I'm making.
Ok, I think this is getting kind of inappropriate and off-topic for a news-post comment thread, and if you want to continue, I'd be pretty okay with taking this to the unofficial forum (otw-unofficial.freeforums.net) but really:
a) If you're aware of that, then why bring up that point in response to a comment that said "I do love AO3's tagging"? b) Has anyone at any point said "Make AO3 like FFN"? I fail to see where that has happened. c) Considering that your comment was in response to..... basically a comment that said 'these particular functionalities FF.net gives and Ao3 doesn't are personally pretty useful to me' in response to a comment that said that the other person found FF.net functionality inadequate, what exactly were you feeling the need to respond to yourself, may I know?
I fail to see how my comment was any more "inappropriate" or off-topic than all the talk of FFN (or that some anon is the arbiter of "appropriateness"), but no, I'm not interested in further discussions with curiously angry anons with axes to grind. I'm done.
I can't make heads or tails of why the anon is arguing with you here either. Unless it's a knee-jerk "person praising something about AO3 tagging = must be an apologist for all the other concerns about the AO3 being raised in this post" reaction.
(Either that, or Overly Aggressive Anon has migrated out from FFA...)
Don't get me wrong, but wasn't the errr... "Overly Aggressive Anon" (intriguing epithet!) the person who praised Ao3's tagging structure and the person (Carmarthen) you're currently replying to, the one who said they weren't a fan?
Both of them have had a mix of praise and criticism! (Anon: "I find FF.net's pure site functionality way better, definitely....I do love AO3's tagging a LOT, don't get me wrong"; Carmathen "FFN does some things better than AO3, but AO3 does other things far better".) And both have talked about specific, individual tagging functionalities that work for their needs.
Which is why it's so weird that the anon jumped to "I don't think that means that...[the AO3] doing those certain things well, is enough excuse to not do other things well", when both of them have said "the AO3 does certain things well" -- and neither has said "that's an excuse not to do other things well."
The purpose of my original comment on this announcement was to express my support for OTW and the decision they made regarding meta. I fully approve of the way they are prioritizing issues and I am extremely grateful for the fact that an archive such as AO3 exists. Why the two of you have decided to turn this into an argument about which site (AO3 or ffnet) is better, I have no idea. I never even mentioned tagging or other specifics in my original comment.
Again, it was meant to be a positive, praiseworthy comment showing my support. I am definitely open to discussions regarding my original comment, but I'm disappointed that this thread has turned from a showing of support into outright criticism which goes completely against what I was trying to accomplish.
Comment on OTW Board response to concerns about the meta decision
Carmarthen Tue 26 Feb 2013 06:50AM UTC
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Uhh (Guest) Tue 26 Feb 2013 07:15AM UTC
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Carmarthen Tue 26 Feb 2013 07:45AM UTC
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Carmarthen Tue 26 Feb 2013 03:15PM UTC
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